Mr. Morré, as director of the German-Russian Museum in Berlin-Karlshorst, your workplace is the place where the Wehrmacht capitulated in 1945. They used to call it the “anti-war museum”. Now you have witnessed a war of aggression in Europe.
It’s terrible. Our whole team is completely shocked by what is happening in Ukraine. I am dismayed that something like this is possible in our day and age, that a war of aggression is launched with an incomprehensible explanation. A blatant breach of international law.
Four nations are behind your museum: Russia, Belarus, Ukraine and Germany. Is a cooperation still conceivable in the future?
Officially, I must have hope. We can seek cooperation on a museum-artistic level. This is an area where you can work together across borders, even with hostile nations. And if you only get together at a vernissage. I stand by that perspective.
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How did it happen that on the morning of the invasion by Putin’s army you took down all the flags in front of the museum except for the Ukrainian one and taped the addition “German-Russian” in front of the museum?
We were all deeply shocked by the attack on Ukraine and felt the need to do something. Four flags are usually raised at sunrise. There was a pause on Thursday. Is that still correct? Then the idea of only hoisting the Ukrainian flag came up. The name of the museum contradicted this. Pasting over “German-Russian” was a spontaneous reaction, a temporary statement of solidarity with Ukraine. During the night, the adhesive strips were removed again by unknown persons.
Do you hope to one day be able to hoist all the flags again as the German-Russian Museum?
Yes, I would like that. By the way, our official name is just “Museum Berlin-Karlshorst”. The attribution “German-Russian” has to do with the founding history. In 1994 there was only a German and a Russian site. Ukraine and Belarus came later. This is certainly a point that will have to be reconsidered in the future. Reducing it to the legal name is the best we can do now.
You are in a difficult situation because of your position. You help shape German-Russian relations as well as Ukrainian-Russian ones. How big is the disruption?
I’ve been part of the museum for 13 years now and this is the most torn moment so far, combined with an anxious view of the future. How can this all go on now?
For decades you have been committed to understanding. Do you also see the war as a personal defeat?
As a historian, I always hope that one can learn from history. That dealing with history together creates a consensus on values. The fact that our countries are drifting so far apart also affects me personally.
What’s your compass these days?
Now there’s shooting in Ukraine. But we try to keep in touch with everyone involved in the museum. Talk to each other! keep dialogue! We have to look for points of contact as to how we can continue.
Do you still have tools in your hands to contribute?
The more urgent question is whether one is not currently becoming a tool oneself, whether one is not being instrumentalised. Fortunately, we have developed good antennas. Karlshorst is a very important place in Russian and Ukrainian memories. A place of shared victory. That has historical weight and can bring people together.
Germany bears the historical guilt of having launched a war of annihilation against the Soviet Union. Is it particularly difficult to criticize Russian politics in this country?
In my view, there are good historical reasons why the federal government is reluctant to answer questions about arms deliveries. But you have to give that as a reason. The political actors in Germany should be aware of the special historical responsibility. These days bring that to the fore again. Come to our museum!
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You once said: “History and memory are once again being determined too strongly by current political constellations and discord.” How do you feel about this sentence today?
The story as such does not change. The way you look at history changes. And even clearer after Thursday. As a museum, we live from the fact that different national histories come together. But it is also clear that we cannot undo what happened with the robbery. Nor can we ask Ukraine to forget this. Everything is different now.
You are a member of the German-Russian Commission of Historians, which consists of scientists from both countries. You have already complained about thematic taboos on the Russian side in the past.
Such taboos have developed in Russian society over a long period of time. There is a very strong focus on national history. The horizon of what can be said is narrowed more and more. There are narratives that cannot be deviated from. This makes it difficult to come together from multiple perspectives.
Putin also presented grotesque historical interpretations about Ukraine. How do you rate that as a historian?
Putin is not a historian. What he is doing there is historically untenable.
[Das Museum Berlin-Karlshorst befindet sich an einem historischen Ort. Vier Nationen sind als Träger beteiligt: Deutschland, Russland, die Ukraine und Belarus. Adresse: Zwieseler Straße 4, 10318 Berlin-Karlshorst, geöffnet ist Di-So 10-18 Uhr, Webseite: museum-karlshorst.de]
Hitler-Putin comparisons are currently circulating on social media.
We historians don’t get involved in that. History doesn’t repeat itself.
In view of the war in Ukraine, do you fear a resurgence of anti-Slavic reflexes in Germany?
It can happen. But society has changed a lot. In Berlin in particular, many people have a Slavic background. This is also a certain immunization against stigmatization. I hope that we don’t fall into the trap of the Cold War again, that political frontline positions and camp thinking spill over into research approaches. There have been too many blockages in our heads for decades.
Are you in personal contact with Russian and Ukrainian colleagues?
Less in the last 48 hours, otherwise yes. That is the blessing of technology, that you can exchange information quickly despite all the political circumstances.
One last, possibly naïve question: what is your personal hope for Ukraine?
That the war is over as quickly as possible so that the dead don’t pile up in immeasurable numbers. That it is possible to get back together, even if that sounds helpless. But unfortunately I do not see that Russian politics will stop and take something back.
